Rant of Righteous Indignation
Jan. 11th, 2005 03:54 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
aerdranOkay. I've never made a secret of how much I love White Wolf and their product line. It is my favourite RPG company, and I've always felt that they handled most things with class and taste, with a few little slips here and there (Read: Gypsies). However, they've pushed something now to a point where I have to question my respect of them.
I read over Mikel's shoulder, as I often do, as he read over his LJ tonight. Some of you have![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
bombyamon on your friends lists, and therefore have read about White Wolf's latest step in the game market. This time it's not an RPG, but a CCG. This CCG is called Pimp: the Backhanding. You can find the link to it on bombyamom's LJ, so I won't bother going off and getting it. If you read the promo for that game, you get to see references to macking ("a pimp's ability to bring home some pootang") and backhanding ("his ability to beat some ass"). It makes fun of these people by utilizing things such as "ho cards" and generally giving or taking away points for beating up prostitutes. You get to try and collect a harem of "hos" and pretty much see who makes the most money.
Damn, is this offensive, or what? Justin Achille justifies the damn game, and some of their advertising for it states pretty much out and out that you won't like it if you have no sense of humour. Apparently, if this low and offensive attempt and being funny doesn't strike you that way, then you have no goddamn sense of humour. I guess I'm in that category then, because I can find nothing funny about it.
I read the forum about it (yes, it has its very own forum now!), and people go on and on justifying it by stating how the pimps aren't real and that it's just a game and who cares and that whoever gets touchy about the thing just doesn't have any idea what funny is and they're too uptight. They compare it to games about pirates and vikings and ninjas and ask why no one is jumping on those games. You know, my big point is that if those games were making fun of the misery and pain caused by these people, I would be far more indignant about it. This CCG makes fun of the concept of beating up on women and forcing them to make money for you. Yes, folks, this is a really funny concept, don't you agree?
I cringe horribly at this. Damnit, I know so many people who eke out their lives on the street in ways that they wouldn't if they had a choice. These people are victimized by not only pimps and johns, but by society in general. But hey, it's okay to make fun of it because it's just a game? Tell that to the prostitute that's being taken to the hospital because some john beat the shit out of her for fun, or because her pimp decided she hasn't made enough money for him. This happens, damnit! This is not something to be made light of and to laugh at. It's wrong to do that. My God, I care about people in these situations. Justin is all adamant about how a big deal shouldn't be made of it because the pimps aren't real pimps, but pretty much caricatures of the pimps in feather hats and platform shoes. No, the pimps aren't real. No, the prostitutes aren't real. But for God's sake, real prostitutes live on real streets or in real hovels, getting beaten by real people and die real deaths in real hospitals/streets/cars/houses/whatever. Why is this so damn funny?! Why is it okay to poke fun at their situations and make a whole card game out of it? Someone on there said that making light of it will help make it go away. Bullshit. Goddamn bullshit. People have been telling racist jokes forever, making light of that, but does that help the situation? No. It harms it and perpetuates a stereotype and a thought process. This is wrong, just as this damn game is wrong. Hell, when I told John about it, even he used that word to describe it, and he tends to be a little less likely to act that way about these things. But he was a cab driver for years and he had prostitutes as fares and he knows the miserable lives that most of them lead. He was offended, just as I'm offended. It's rare that we see eye to eye on things like this, so mark it down on your calendars.
Over the course of a few years here in Spokane, we had a serial killer running around. He was killing prostitutes by shooting them in the head and putting plastic bags over their heads before dumping them or burying them somewhere. He buried one in his own yard, without his family ever realizing it. He was caught and put to trial and is suspected of doing this in other places as well. I'm sure the people of Spokane and the people who cared about these prostitutes would find a game focusing on beating up people just like their loved ones to be really funny. They'd get a big laugh out of it, I'm sure. But hey, their feelings don't matter, because they'd just be being oversensitive anyway. Damn.
I love my extended family. I love every single one of them with a love that one only has for those they consider family. Because of that, and because of who they are and what they've gone through, maybe some people will consider that I have a right to some righteous indignation about it. Truth is, everyone has that right. I could lose any one of these people that I love at any time due to bad circumstances on the streets. Sure, most of them aren't in danger of being killed by pimps or johns, but it's not too far a stretch to include other street people or gang members into the idea of this "game." They could just as easily make a game making fun these people because of their situations, which many had forced upon them. But hey, it's okay to make fun of them because who are they? No one important, right?
I remember Ethan making comments not all that long ago about how they would never make another book like Gypsies because it singled out a group of people and thrust a stereotype upon them like it was the truth. He admitted that the book was a mistake from the get-go and that the mistake would not be made again. I applaud this idea. However, what makes it okay to do the same to this group of people? It's a culture in and of itself, but I guess the fact that it isn't one based on race makes it all right. I don't know if the game has male prostitutes, as a note. However, that I still find offensive. Men or women, it doesn't matter. I'm pissed either way. Of course, I don't know what most of the developers and writers think about this CCG, just what Justin and Conrad think. I don't know who all is involved and who supports it or hates it. I just know that the company found enough merit in it to sell it. I thought it was a joke when I first saw it, which was bad enough because there was really nothing funny about it, but you can order the damn game. There go those hopes, dashed to the ground.
I don't think that I need to point out that, from a feminist perspective, this game is absolutely horrible. People on the forum pointed out how women they knew laughed about it and found it funny, but so what? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. For all anyone knows, they laughed because it was expected of them, just like some black people laugh at racist jokes so as not to seem oversensitive. There's nothing to laugh about in either case, really. I know that nobody here finds it at all funny, and well, there are a lot of people here. Hell, I know an entire gang whose goal in part is to deal with people who they see or hear about messing with women. They, especially the leader (male, I might add, just as most of the gang is male), take disrespect toward women very badly, and they show it. Funny, isn't it? A group of what most people see as lowlifes shows more respect for women than a respected gaming company. That's pretty telling right there.
So there's my rant. I may add more later, but right now I think I've said enough. I'm of a serious mind to find the e-mail address of someone in charge there (not Justin, of course. He'd brush off my concerns as if they were of no matter whatsoever) and send a nice long e-mail to this person. They must be made to hear from people who have strong opinions on this. Imagine the image that White Wolf will get after releasing this game. Gaming companies get enough of a bad rap just because of roleplaying games. This isn't going to help their cause at all. I'll have to see about doing that, because I really do feel the need to air my opinion. It's not like I trust the forum to be an adequate place in which to do this as my point could be lost in the mire and confusion that is already reigning there. So I'll see what I can find and do what I can do, not that I expect my opinion to mean much to them. I hope I'm wrong with that, but I don't expect much right now.
Why, oh why, did you have to do this, White Wolf? Sigh.
I read over Mikel's shoulder, as I often do, as he read over his LJ tonight. Some of you have
bombyamon on your friends lists, and therefore have read about White Wolf's latest step in the game market. This time it's not an RPG, but a CCG. This CCG is called Pimp: the Backhanding. You can find the link to it on bombyamom's LJ, so I won't bother going off and getting it. If you read the promo for that game, you get to see references to macking ("a pimp's ability to bring home some pootang") and backhanding ("his ability to beat some ass"). It makes fun of these people by utilizing things such as "ho cards" and generally giving or taking away points for beating up prostitutes. You get to try and collect a harem of "hos" and pretty much see who makes the most money.Damn, is this offensive, or what? Justin Achille justifies the damn game, and some of their advertising for it states pretty much out and out that you won't like it if you have no sense of humour. Apparently, if this low and offensive attempt and being funny doesn't strike you that way, then you have no goddamn sense of humour. I guess I'm in that category then, because I can find nothing funny about it.
I read the forum about it (yes, it has its very own forum now!), and people go on and on justifying it by stating how the pimps aren't real and that it's just a game and who cares and that whoever gets touchy about the thing just doesn't have any idea what funny is and they're too uptight. They compare it to games about pirates and vikings and ninjas and ask why no one is jumping on those games. You know, my big point is that if those games were making fun of the misery and pain caused by these people, I would be far more indignant about it. This CCG makes fun of the concept of beating up on women and forcing them to make money for you. Yes, folks, this is a really funny concept, don't you agree?
I cringe horribly at this. Damnit, I know so many people who eke out their lives on the street in ways that they wouldn't if they had a choice. These people are victimized by not only pimps and johns, but by society in general. But hey, it's okay to make fun of it because it's just a game? Tell that to the prostitute that's being taken to the hospital because some john beat the shit out of her for fun, or because her pimp decided she hasn't made enough money for him. This happens, damnit! This is not something to be made light of and to laugh at. It's wrong to do that. My God, I care about people in these situations. Justin is all adamant about how a big deal shouldn't be made of it because the pimps aren't real pimps, but pretty much caricatures of the pimps in feather hats and platform shoes. No, the pimps aren't real. No, the prostitutes aren't real. But for God's sake, real prostitutes live on real streets or in real hovels, getting beaten by real people and die real deaths in real hospitals/streets/cars/houses/whatever. Why is this so damn funny?! Why is it okay to poke fun at their situations and make a whole card game out of it? Someone on there said that making light of it will help make it go away. Bullshit. Goddamn bullshit. People have been telling racist jokes forever, making light of that, but does that help the situation? No. It harms it and perpetuates a stereotype and a thought process. This is wrong, just as this damn game is wrong. Hell, when I told John about it, even he used that word to describe it, and he tends to be a little less likely to act that way about these things. But he was a cab driver for years and he had prostitutes as fares and he knows the miserable lives that most of them lead. He was offended, just as I'm offended. It's rare that we see eye to eye on things like this, so mark it down on your calendars.
Over the course of a few years here in Spokane, we had a serial killer running around. He was killing prostitutes by shooting them in the head and putting plastic bags over their heads before dumping them or burying them somewhere. He buried one in his own yard, without his family ever realizing it. He was caught and put to trial and is suspected of doing this in other places as well. I'm sure the people of Spokane and the people who cared about these prostitutes would find a game focusing on beating up people just like their loved ones to be really funny. They'd get a big laugh out of it, I'm sure. But hey, their feelings don't matter, because they'd just be being oversensitive anyway. Damn.
I love my extended family. I love every single one of them with a love that one only has for those they consider family. Because of that, and because of who they are and what they've gone through, maybe some people will consider that I have a right to some righteous indignation about it. Truth is, everyone has that right. I could lose any one of these people that I love at any time due to bad circumstances on the streets. Sure, most of them aren't in danger of being killed by pimps or johns, but it's not too far a stretch to include other street people or gang members into the idea of this "game." They could just as easily make a game making fun these people because of their situations, which many had forced upon them. But hey, it's okay to make fun of them because who are they? No one important, right?
I remember Ethan making comments not all that long ago about how they would never make another book like Gypsies because it singled out a group of people and thrust a stereotype upon them like it was the truth. He admitted that the book was a mistake from the get-go and that the mistake would not be made again. I applaud this idea. However, what makes it okay to do the same to this group of people? It's a culture in and of itself, but I guess the fact that it isn't one based on race makes it all right. I don't know if the game has male prostitutes, as a note. However, that I still find offensive. Men or women, it doesn't matter. I'm pissed either way. Of course, I don't know what most of the developers and writers think about this CCG, just what Justin and Conrad think. I don't know who all is involved and who supports it or hates it. I just know that the company found enough merit in it to sell it. I thought it was a joke when I first saw it, which was bad enough because there was really nothing funny about it, but you can order the damn game. There go those hopes, dashed to the ground.
I don't think that I need to point out that, from a feminist perspective, this game is absolutely horrible. People on the forum pointed out how women they knew laughed about it and found it funny, but so what? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. For all anyone knows, they laughed because it was expected of them, just like some black people laugh at racist jokes so as not to seem oversensitive. There's nothing to laugh about in either case, really. I know that nobody here finds it at all funny, and well, there are a lot of people here. Hell, I know an entire gang whose goal in part is to deal with people who they see or hear about messing with women. They, especially the leader (male, I might add, just as most of the gang is male), take disrespect toward women very badly, and they show it. Funny, isn't it? A group of what most people see as lowlifes shows more respect for women than a respected gaming company. That's pretty telling right there.
So there's my rant. I may add more later, but right now I think I've said enough. I'm of a serious mind to find the e-mail address of someone in charge there (not Justin, of course. He'd brush off my concerns as if they were of no matter whatsoever) and send a nice long e-mail to this person. They must be made to hear from people who have strong opinions on this. Imagine the image that White Wolf will get after releasing this game. Gaming companies get enough of a bad rap just because of roleplaying games. This isn't going to help their cause at all. I'll have to see about doing that, because I really do feel the need to air my opinion. It's not like I trust the forum to be an adequate place in which to do this as my point could be lost in the mire and confusion that is already reigning there. So I'll see what I can find and do what I can do, not that I expect my opinion to mean much to them. I hope I'm wrong with that, but I don't expect much right now.
Why, oh why, did you have to do this, White Wolf? Sigh.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 03:40 pm (UTC)So a few thousand people (at best) play a card game which is a cartoonish version of how real people have crappy lives? I can live with that. I made my first September the 11th joke 24 hours after the damn thing, but that doesn't mean my heart doesn't skip a beat when I see it again, or that it doesn't twist my guts and upset me greatly. It doesn't mean I've failed to be affected by the thing, or that I can't see the greater problems behind it. It means it was fucked up and people make jokes about fucked-up things - for a lot of reasons.
A guy I used to know was in a wheelchair. I didn't know him well, so I was always on my tippy-toes about saying anything which might offend him. And yet, every single damn time we went somewhere together, he'd always say "I'll race you." Now, that's just funny. It always made me laugh. Eventually, I started saying it to him, and that was funny, too.
People joke about bad stuff when it's not happening to them, and very often when it is. Nothing will change that, and taking part in the jokes doesn't make you ignorant, nor does it make you a bad person.
It's a bad taste game. Releasing it and playing it don't really make you an idiot who thinks serial prostitute-killers are okay, or that you don't worry about your extended family. I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market. A tiny, minor card game making fun of whores and pimps is bad, but you're cool with making mass-market console games about millions of young men getting killed and blown to bits? Or is it that people are laughing about the game that is bad, not that they enjoy it? There's a dark humour in everything tragic. That's one of the reasons that tragedy works on us.
I think in these kinda cases, a little perspective is needed. This strikes me as a little like your soldiers fucking over and murdering thousands of civilians in an illegal war, yet you all freak out at Janet Jackson's tits on TV.
Stupid game. Stupid humour. But people laugh at anything, and it doesn't make them evil, wrong, ignorant, or any combination of the three.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 03:53 pm (UTC)It's amazing to me how many people take what they see in games (and TV and movies...it's by no means limited to one form of media) as truth. Like, I've seen people debate a fact in an RPG, using as evidence something they saw in a movie once.
I love RPGs, don't get me wrong, but they make lousy substitutes for life experience. You, me, Gayle...we have some pretty invaluable life experience among us, but I know and game with people who have never done anything.
Part of the "humor" of Pimp, I think, comes from being able to recognize that one some level, this shit is real and it's fucked up. The only way to avoid crying is to laugh, sometimes. And then there are the people who laugh because they don't know any better.
So what to do? You can always educate, but then you get called "pedantic" and "overbearing" (like me). You can boycott, but I'll tell you exactly how much good that does (and the other thing is, I guarantee there are people working for WW who don't dig this game, but who are putting out quality games independent of Pimp). I don't know. Not an easy answer.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 04:41 pm (UTC)Sure, there are people who will play it and realize the nastiness behind it. However, there are also those that will not, and younger people can get an impression from it that just isn't good. This happens with young people. They're still not sure of their own ethics and morals all of the time, and things like this will affect them, regardless of how stupid it might seem.
It might not be a big deal to you, and that's your opinion. I respect that, I really do. But I believe that my opinion should be respected as well, regardless of how stupid you or anyone else might find it. As Matt said, my life experience is different than that of others, so I'll look at things differently. I mean, a lot of people don't believe in premarital sex, for example, and I find that silly. Well, except when it comes to my kids, of course. Then the silliness isn't there anymore. I trust you realize I'm joking there, of course. My oldest son has two kids, after all, and he and his girlfriend have not yet married. I'm still working on that.
>>A guy I used to know was in a wheelchair. I didn't know him well, so I was always on my tippy-toes about saying anything which might offend him. And yet, every single damn time we went somewhere together, he'd always say "I'll race you." Now, that's just funny. It always made me laugh. Eventually, I started saying it to him, and that was funny, too.<<
Yeah, I feel you here. It's difficult to know how to act in these sorts of situations. I find that treating a person like you'd treat anyone else usually works, though. Usually. I've seen that messed up before.
>> I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market.<<
No, you don't see me do that. Does that have to mean that I don't do it?
>>People joke about bad stuff when it's not happening to them, and very often when it is. Nothing will change that, and taking part in the jokes doesn't make you ignorant, nor does it make you a bad person.<<
Yes, people do that. A teacher I had told me of the time she lost her baby. People at the job she held at the time, who knew about this, thought that inundating her with dead baby jokes would help lighten things up. She quit. In this case, yes, it does make those people ignorant. They have no idea that doing such a thing is exactly the wrong thing to do. They are ignorant in that way, just as people who tell racist jokes are ignorant in that they don't have a clue a lot of the time that they're really hurting someone and perpetuating a nasty stereotype.
Yes, it's a bad taste game. And no, it doesn't make you an idiot. However, my having a problem with it doesn't make me insensitive to other wrongs either.
>>I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market. A tiny, minor card game making fun of whores and pimps is bad, but you're cool with making mass-market console games about millions of young men getting killed and blown to bits?<<
Did I once say that I was cool with this? I don'r recall doing so. Again, because I haven't ranted about something on here does not mean I haven't ranted about it elsewhere. I do have a life off of LJ, after all. Although I must admit that most of my ranting doesn't go to games, it goes to real life situations that I face and feel the distinct need to stand up about, such as the racist down the road. My life's been pretty full with that. I can only put so much on my plate, after all.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 04:42 pm (UTC)With this game, I happened to see the link regarding it and it hit that button I have. The fact that it's put out by a company I truly respect made it that much more urgent for me to get it off of my chest. I guess maybe it's easier to accept when someone you have no knowledge of or experience with does something you don't like. When it's someone you care something about, it gets worse.
>>think in these kinda cases, a little perspective is needed. This strikes me as a little like your soldiers fucking over and murdering thousands of civilians in an illegal war, yet you all freak out at Janet Jackson's tits on TV.<<
I agree on that completely. The Janet Jackson episode was blown so far out of proportion that it's hard to believe. However, I don't see my rant about this game being as blown out of proportion as all that, especially when I have ranted about things you've mentioned, live and in person.
I'm glad to see that we agree that it's stupid, at least. I still believe the game to be wrong, however, and I don't see my mind changing on that anytime soon. If I didn't speak out on that, I'd feel pretty hypocritical, just as hypocritical as I'd feel if I didn't speak out on some of those other things that you know, you accused me of not railing against.
Thanks for your two cents, though. I appreciate seeing any and all views, even though it might not seem like it. It helps me put things into perspective.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 05:30 pm (UTC)You can, she can't. Your point is? Her opinion is just as valid as yours, and she has reasons for the way she feels, just like anyone else. At least she doesn't hide from the world and keep her mouth shut when she sees something she thinks needs to be spoken out against. I think that's a good thing.
"People joke about bad stuff when it's not happening to them, and very often when it is"
They do, yes. Does that make it right? Does that mean that people who know that it can hurt others should just keep their mouths shut and let others go on and on with their garbage? A lot of people would stop if they knew that it hurt others. If nobody tells them, how do they know? If nobody throws in a protest about an offensive and immature game such as this, how will anyone know that people don't like it? Should we just all blithely accept that these things are going to happen and turn the other way? I admire people who stand up for their convictions. I think everyone should.
"I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market. A tiny, minor card game making fun of whores and pimps is bad, but you're cool with making mass-market console games about millions of young men getting killed and blown to bits?"
She covered this pretty well. When you have no real knowledge of what she does and does not crusade against, you have no right to criticize her on that point. As she said, she does have a life outside of Livejournal. Just because it isn't posted on here does not make it any less real.
"I think in these kinda cases, a little perspective is needed. This strikes me as a little like your soldiers fucking over and murdering thousands of civilians in an illegal war, yet you all freak out at Janet Jackson's tits on TV."
That strikes me as a complete overexaggertion. How is railing against one game in a public forum and not another comparable to that? That's way off base, and I hope you can realize it. If not, well, that's really not my problem. Except, of course, when you shine that perticular light in Gayle's direction, or the direction of anyone close to me. Speak not of what you know not.
"Stupid game. Stupid humour."
Right on both counts.
"But people laugh at anything, and it doesn't make them evil, wrong, ignorant, or any combination of the three."
Evil, no. The other two, it depends. Ignorance especially is a good adjective to describe some people in some of these instances. It may not always do so, but it can. I don't think you can convincingly argue otherwise.
-Mikel
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 05:54 pm (UTC)Well damn, I missed a typo. I think I need sleep as well. That would be "particular."
At least I caught it before some. I'd hear about it for weeks otherwise.
-Mikel
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 05:36 pm (UTC)Musta missed this the first time I read your post.
Now, come on, Aaron. I'm sure you know that not everybody in America - probably not even a majority - support said war. And 49% of us did our level best to get the guy out of office who was responsible (in part; can't blame the monkey for the music) for perpetuating it. This comparison isn't really apt.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 07:41 pm (UTC)Maybe the majority didn't support the war, but the majority that didn't support showing a pair of breasts got more done in reaction to it, and those results are what people see both inside and outside the country.
It's a very apt example of the way that the US as a populace is oh so eager to see something done about the relatively small things -- violence in computer games, sex involving puppets -- and is less so about things that actually matter like illegal war, torture and the revocation of basic human rights.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 07:47 pm (UTC)It's like comparing grapes to cantelopes.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 07:56 pm (UTC)Normalise the distributions and they are comparable, and the ludicrous disparity
Cantelopes (cantaloupes is the closest I can find on dictionary.com, you .usians and your weird words) and grapes are both comparable in the normalised domains of foodstuffs, vegetation, by-weight nutrition and relative suitability for production of an enjoyable alcoholic beverage.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 07:45 pm (UTC)Yes it does. It also makes them insensitive, immature, and immoral.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 07:50 pm (UTC)Nice to know that those of us who rather enjoy laughing at things in general are the scum of the Earth.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-11 08:28 pm (UTC)No, I disagree. Insensitive, perhaps. Immature, probably. Immoral, not necessarily (yes, it's possible to laugh at this game and actually be immoral, but one doesn't absolutely indicate the other).
Am I a racist because I thought Blazing Saddles was funny?
How about Chris Rock's humor? Pretty racist stuff (and by "racist" I mean "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability"), yeah? Does laughing at it make me immoral?
I'm sorry, I just can't accept that finding humor in pain = immorality, since, as I said earlier, humor is always based on somebody getting the shaft. It's just a matter of degrees.