Rant of Righteous Indignation

[aerdran]

Okay. I've never made a secret of how much I love White Wolf and their product line. It is my favourite RPG company, and I've always felt that they handled most things with class and taste, with a few little slips here and there (Read: Gypsies). However, they've pushed something now to a point where I have to question my respect of them.

I read over Mikel's shoulder, as I often do, as he read over his LJ tonight. Some of you have bombyamon on your friends lists, and therefore have read about White Wolf's latest step in the game market. This time it's not an RPG, but a CCG. This CCG is called Pimp: the Backhanding. You can find the link to it on bombyamom's LJ, so I won't bother going off and getting it. If you read the promo for that game, you get to see references to macking ("a pimp's ability to bring home some pootang") and backhanding ("his ability to beat some ass"). It makes fun of these people by utilizing things such as "ho cards" and generally giving or taking away points for beating up prostitutes. You get to try and collect a harem of "hos" and pretty much see who makes the most money.

Damn, is this offensive, or what? Justin Achille justifies the damn game, and some of their advertising for it states pretty much out and out that you won't like it if you have no sense of humour. Apparently, if this low and offensive attempt and being funny doesn't strike you that way, then you have no goddamn sense of humour. I guess I'm in that category then, because I can find nothing funny about it.

I read the forum about it (yes, it has its very own forum now!), and people go on and on justifying it by stating how the pimps aren't real and that it's just a game and who cares and that whoever gets touchy about the thing just doesn't have any idea what funny is and they're too uptight. They compare it to games about pirates and vikings and ninjas and ask why no one is jumping on those games. You know, my big point is that if those games were making fun of the misery and pain caused by these people, I would be far more indignant about it. This CCG makes fun of the concept of beating up on women and forcing them to make money for you. Yes, folks, this is a really funny concept, don't you agree?

I cringe horribly at this. Damnit, I know so many people who eke out their lives on the street in ways that they wouldn't if they had a choice. These people are victimized by not only pimps and johns, but by society in general. But hey, it's okay to make fun of it because it's just a game? Tell that to the prostitute that's being taken to the hospital because some john beat the shit out of her for fun, or because her pimp decided she hasn't made enough money for him. This happens, damnit! This is not something to be made light of and to laugh at. It's wrong to do that. My God, I care about people in these situations. Justin is all adamant about how a big deal shouldn't be made of it because the pimps aren't real pimps, but pretty much caricatures of the pimps in feather hats and platform shoes. No, the pimps aren't real. No, the prostitutes aren't real. But for God's sake, real prostitutes live on real streets or in real hovels, getting beaten by real people and die real deaths in real hospitals/streets/cars/houses/whatever. Why is this so damn funny?! Why is it okay to poke fun at their situations and make a whole card game out of it? Someone on there said that making light of it will help make it go away. Bullshit. Goddamn bullshit. People have been telling racist jokes forever, making light of that, but does that help the situation? No. It harms it and perpetuates a stereotype and a thought process. This is wrong, just as this damn game is wrong. Hell, when I told John about it, even he used that word to describe it, and he tends to be a little less likely to act that way about these things. But he was a cab driver for years and he had prostitutes as fares and he knows the miserable lives that most of them lead. He was offended, just as I'm offended. It's rare that we see eye to eye on things like this, so mark it down on your calendars.

Over the course of a few years here in Spokane, we had a serial killer running around. He was killing prostitutes by shooting them in the head and putting plastic bags over their heads before dumping them or burying them somewhere. He buried one in his own yard, without his family ever realizing it. He was caught and put to trial and is suspected of doing this in other places as well. I'm sure the people of Spokane and the people who cared about these prostitutes would find a game focusing on beating up people just like their loved ones to be really funny. They'd get a big laugh out of it, I'm sure. But hey, their feelings don't matter, because they'd just be being oversensitive anyway. Damn.

I love my extended family. I love every single one of them with a love that one only has for those they consider family. Because of that, and because of who they are and what they've gone through, maybe some people will consider that I have a right to some righteous indignation about it. Truth is, everyone has that right. I could lose any one of these people that I love at any time due to bad circumstances on the streets. Sure, most of them aren't in danger of being killed by pimps or johns, but it's not too far a stretch to include other street people or gang members into the idea of this "game." They could just as easily make a game making fun these people because of their situations, which many had forced upon them. But hey, it's okay to make fun of them because who are they? No one important, right?

I remember Ethan making comments not all that long ago about how they would never make another book like Gypsies because it singled out a group of people and thrust a stereotype upon them like it was the truth. He admitted that the book was a mistake from the get-go and that the mistake would not be made again. I applaud this idea. However, what makes it okay to do the same to this group of people? It's a culture in and of itself, but I guess the fact that it isn't one based on race makes it all right. I don't know if the game has male prostitutes, as a note. However, that I still find offensive. Men or women, it doesn't matter. I'm pissed either way. Of course, I don't know what most of the developers and writers think about this CCG, just what Justin and Conrad think. I don't know who all is involved and who supports it or hates it. I just know that the company found enough merit in it to sell it. I thought it was a joke when I first saw it, which was bad enough because there was really nothing funny about it, but you can order the damn game. There go those hopes, dashed to the ground.

I don't think that I need to point out that, from a feminist perspective, this game is absolutely horrible. People on the forum pointed out how women they knew laughed about it and found it funny, but so what? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. For all anyone knows, they laughed because it was expected of them, just like some black people laugh at racist jokes so as not to seem oversensitive. There's nothing to laugh about in either case, really. I know that nobody here finds it at all funny, and well, there are a lot of people here. Hell, I know an entire gang whose goal in part is to deal with people who they see or hear about messing with women. They, especially the leader (male, I might add, just as most of the gang is male), take disrespect toward women very badly, and they show it. Funny, isn't it? A group of what most people see as lowlifes shows more respect for women than a respected gaming company. That's pretty telling right there.

So there's my rant. I may add more later, but right now I think I've said enough. I'm of a serious mind to find the e-mail address of someone in charge there (not Justin, of course. He'd brush off my concerns as if they were of no matter whatsoever) and send a nice long e-mail to this person. They must be made to hear from people who have strong opinions on this. Imagine the image that White Wolf will get after releasing this game. Gaming companies get enough of a bad rap just because of roleplaying games. This isn't going to help their cause at all. I'll have to see about doing that, because I really do feel the need to air my opinion. It's not like I trust the forum to be an adequate place in which to do this as my point could be lost in the mire and confusion that is already reigning there. So I'll see what I can find and do what I can do, not that I expect my opinion to mean much to them. I hope I'm wrong with that, but I don't expect much right now.

Why, oh why, did you have to do this, White Wolf? Sigh.

Comments

[hard-knocks.livejournal.com]

You know you have my complete and total support, but you already know that.

Well ranted.


-Mikel

[innocent-man.livejournal.com]

Would that I could give you the email address of someone at WW who would take your concerns seriously and is in a position to do anything about it. I can't. Most of the folks who work there are jaded and cynical (maybe that's why they let me go...nah, it's because I live in the wrong state).

I didn't have anything to do with Pimp, and I ain't played or even seen much of it yet, so I haven't made up my mind about it. You're right, of course; the things it portrays and the way in which it portrays them hit much closer to the mark of real life than anything currently happening in gaming regarding pirates and ninjas. On the other hand, it's also pretty obvious that the game is putting all of this in an exaggerated, cartoonish perspective.

Plus, all humor is based on pain. Someone gets hurt whenever something is funny, but the pain is in very different degrees. It's not a measure of whether you have a sense of humor, but rather a measure of your sense of humor, that you don't find Pimp funny.

And, frankly, I can sympathize. Since Teagan was born, I'm finding my own sensibilities are changing regarding what I find funny and what I find upsetting. Something Positive isn't always so funny anymore. Neither is T-shirt Hell. You're in a very different place in terms of life experience and maturity than most of the people who are going to play Pimp, and you're hardly alone in your concerns.

Take comfort, I suppose, in the fact that this game certainly isn't going to induce any of the players to go and beat on women any more than playing D&D induces people to beat on orcs - the situations are artificial because it's a game. And, by all means, continue to remind people that these situations, while cartoony, have very real and disturbing analogs and provide links to sites that showcase the aftermath. You might well wake some people up.

[aarondb.livejournal.com]

Damn, you can let South Park and Team America go out into the world without kicking up a fuss, and they're seen and loved by millions.

So a few thousand people (at best) play a card game which is a cartoonish version of how real people have crappy lives? I can live with that. I made my first September the 11th joke 24 hours after the damn thing, but that doesn't mean my heart doesn't skip a beat when I see it again, or that it doesn't twist my guts and upset me greatly. It doesn't mean I've failed to be affected by the thing, or that I can't see the greater problems behind it. It means it was fucked up and people make jokes about fucked-up things - for a lot of reasons.

A guy I used to know was in a wheelchair. I didn't know him well, so I was always on my tippy-toes about saying anything which might offend him. And yet, every single damn time we went somewhere together, he'd always say "I'll race you." Now, that's just funny. It always made me laugh. Eventually, I started saying it to him, and that was funny, too.

People joke about bad stuff when it's not happening to them, and very often when it is. Nothing will change that, and taking part in the jokes doesn't make you ignorant, nor does it make you a bad person.

It's a bad taste game. Releasing it and playing it don't really make you an idiot who thinks serial prostitute-killers are okay, or that you don't worry about your extended family. I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market. A tiny, minor card game making fun of whores and pimps is bad, but you're cool with making mass-market console games about millions of young men getting killed and blown to bits? Or is it that people are laughing about the game that is bad, not that they enjoy it? There's a dark humour in everything tragic. That's one of the reasons that tragedy works on us.

I think in these kinda cases, a little perspective is needed. This strikes me as a little like your soldiers fucking over and murdering thousands of civilians in an illegal war, yet you all freak out at Janet Jackson's tits on TV.

Stupid game. Stupid humour. But people laugh at anything, and it doesn't make them evil, wrong, ignorant, or any combination of the three.

[innocent-man.livejournal.com]

All true...and yet...

It's amazing to me how many people take what they see in games (and TV and movies...it's by no means limited to one form of media) as truth. Like, I've seen people debate a fact in an RPG, using as evidence something they saw in a movie once.

I love RPGs, don't get me wrong, but they make lousy substitutes for life experience. You, me, Gayle...we have some pretty invaluable life experience among us, but I know and game with people who have never done anything.

Part of the "humor" of Pimp, I think, comes from being able to recognize that one some level, this shit is real and it's fucked up. The only way to avoid crying is to laugh, sometimes. And then there are the people who laugh because they don't know any better.

So what to do? You can always educate, but then you get called "pedantic" and "overbearing" (like me). You can boycott, but I'll tell you exactly how much good that does (and the other thing is, I guarantee there are people working for WW who don't dig this game, but who are putting out quality games independent of Pimp). I don't know. Not an easy answer.

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

First of all, you have no idea if I put up a fuss about these things or not. This game happened to push a particular button with me, so I ranted about it on here. I've railed against South Park on many occasions, actually. I've never seen Team America, so I have no idea what there is in it to rant about. See, I'm a mom, so I tend to worry much more than some people about little things when I think that things might affect my family in some way. Maybe I don't do it on here, but I do it plenty, believe me. That's my responsibility as a parent.

Sure, there are people who will play it and realize the nastiness behind it. However, there are also those that will not, and younger people can get an impression from it that just isn't good. This happens with young people. They're still not sure of their own ethics and morals all of the time, and things like this will affect them, regardless of how stupid it might seem.

It might not be a big deal to you, and that's your opinion. I respect that, I really do. But I believe that my opinion should be respected as well, regardless of how stupid you or anyone else might find it. As Matt said, my life experience is different than that of others, so I'll look at things differently. I mean, a lot of people don't believe in premarital sex, for example, and I find that silly. Well, except when it comes to my kids, of course. Then the silliness isn't there anymore. I trust you realize I'm joking there, of course. My oldest son has two kids, after all, and he and his girlfriend have not yet married. I'm still working on that.

>>A guy I used to know was in a wheelchair. I didn't know him well, so I was always on my tippy-toes about saying anything which might offend him. And yet, every single damn time we went somewhere together, he'd always say "I'll race you." Now, that's just funny. It always made me laugh. Eventually, I started saying it to him, and that was funny, too.<<

Yeah, I feel you here. It's difficult to know how to act in these sorts of situations. I find that treating a person like you'd treat anyone else usually works, though. Usually. I've seen that messed up before.

>> I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market.<<

No, you don't see me do that. Does that have to mean that I don't do it?

>>People joke about bad stuff when it's not happening to them, and very often when it is. Nothing will change that, and taking part in the jokes doesn't make you ignorant, nor does it make you a bad person.<<

Yes, people do that. A teacher I had told me of the time she lost her baby. People at the job she held at the time, who knew about this, thought that inundating her with dead baby jokes would help lighten things up. She quit. In this case, yes, it does make those people ignorant. They have no idea that doing such a thing is exactly the wrong thing to do. They are ignorant in that way, just as people who tell racist jokes are ignorant in that they don't have a clue a lot of the time that they're really hurting someone and perpetuating a nasty stereotype.

Yes, it's a bad taste game. And no, it doesn't make you an idiot. However, my having a problem with it doesn't make me insensitive to other wrongs either.

>>I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market. A tiny, minor card game making fun of whores and pimps is bad, but you're cool with making mass-market console games about millions of young men getting killed and blown to bits?<<

Did I once say that I was cool with this? I don'r recall doing so. Again, because I haven't ranted about something on here does not mean I haven't ranted about it elsewhere. I do have a life off of LJ, after all. Although I must admit that most of my ranting doesn't go to games, it goes to real life situations that I face and feel the distinct need to stand up about, such as the racist down the road. My life's been pretty full with that. I can only put so much on my plate, after all.

[hard-knocks.livejournal.com]

"So a few thousand people (at best) play a card game which is a cartoonish version of how real people have crappy lives? I can live with that."

You can, she can't. Your point is? Her opinion is just as valid as yours, and she has reasons for the way she feels, just like anyone else. At least she doesn't hide from the world and keep her mouth shut when she sees something she thinks needs to be spoken out against. I think that's a good thing.

"People joke about bad stuff when it's not happening to them, and very often when it is"

They do, yes. Does that make it right? Does that mean that people who know that it can hurt others should just keep their mouths shut and let others go on and on with their garbage? A lot of people would stop if they knew that it hurt others. If nobody tells them, how do they know? If nobody throws in a protest about an offensive and immature game such as this, how will anyone know that people don't like it? Should we just all blithely accept that these things are going to happen and turn the other way? I admire people who stand up for their convictions. I think everyone should.

"I don't see you crusading against the GTA games or those World War 2 games that are flooding the market. A tiny, minor card game making fun of whores and pimps is bad, but you're cool with making mass-market console games about millions of young men getting killed and blown to bits?"

She covered this pretty well. When you have no real knowledge of what she does and does not crusade against, you have no right to criticize her on that point. As she said, she does have a life outside of Livejournal. Just because it isn't posted on here does not make it any less real.

"I think in these kinda cases, a little perspective is needed. This strikes me as a little like your soldiers fucking over and murdering thousands of civilians in an illegal war, yet you all freak out at Janet Jackson's tits on TV."

That strikes me as a complete overexaggertion. How is railing against one game in a public forum and not another comparable to that? That's way off base, and I hope you can realize it. If not, well, that's really not my problem. Except, of course, when you shine that perticular light in Gayle's direction, or the direction of anyone close to me. Speak not of what you know not.

"Stupid game. Stupid humour."

Right on both counts.

"But people laugh at anything, and it doesn't make them evil, wrong, ignorant, or any combination of the three."

Evil, no. The other two, it depends. Ignorance especially is a good adjective to describe some people in some of these instances. It may not always do so, but it can. I don't think you can convincingly argue otherwise.



-Mikel

[innocent-man.livejournal.com]

This strikes me as a little like your soldiers fucking over and murdering thousands of civilians in an illegal war, yet you all freak out at Janet Jackson's tits on TV.

Musta missed this the first time I read your post.

Now, come on, Aaron. I'm sure you know that not everybody in America - probably not even a majority - support said war. And 49% of us did our level best to get the guy out of office who was responsible (in part; can't blame the monkey for the music) for perpetuating it. This comparison isn't really apt.

[bombyamom.livejournal.com]

"Stupid game. Stupid humour. But people laugh at anything, and it doesn't make them evil, wrong, ignorant, or any combination of the three."

Yes it does. It also makes them insensitive, immature, and immoral.

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

>>Would that I could give you the email address of someone at WW who would take your concerns seriously and is in a position to do anything about it. I can't. Most of the folks who work there are jaded and cynical (maybe that's why they let me go...nah, it's because I live in the wrong state).<<

Well, they let go a hell of a guy, let me say that. They're definitely less for it, regardless of reason.

>>On the other hand, it's also pretty obvious that the game is putting all of this in an exaggerated, cartoonish perspective.<<

See, I guess that's my biggest problem with it. Regardless of how obvious it is that it's exaggerated and cartoonish, it still makes light of something that's very real and very terrible. I don't think that's right at all. It's like I've been told and told others about racist jokes. They say that it's just a joke and nothing is meant by it, but humour is the best way to make things seem less important and sometimes more acceptable and perpetuate things more. Just because it's a joke doesn't mean it doesn't hurt someone, as I know you know. Such things seriously slow down progress in certain areas, and that's never good. Sure, the thing has a little label that says it's recommended for mature audiences, but kids will see it and play it. I mean, smoking is illegal for anyone under 18, and I know I see a hell of a lot of people younger than that still smoking. Kids will play the game, think it's funny, and there goes the cycle. It keeps on keeping on.

>>Plus, all humor is based on pain. Someone gets hurt whenever something is funny, but the pain is in very different degrees. It's not a measure of whether you have a sense of humor, but rather a measure of your sense of humor, that you don't find Pimp funny.<<

Agreed. I just wish that people could see when that pain really deeply affects someone, but sadly, if it's outside of one's own experience, most people just can't understand that it would hurt or why.

>>And, frankly, I can sympathize. Since Teagan was born, I'm finding my own sensibilities are changing regarding what I find funny and what I find upsetting. Something Positive isn't always so funny anymore. Neither is T-shirt Hell. You're in a very different place in terms of life experience and maturity than most of the people who are going to play Pimp, and you're hardly alone in your concerns.<<

Kids do put a new spin on things, don't they? It's kind of amazing how they change your life. So much power in such a little package. I hope our girls grow up to understand things a little better than I see most kids understanding things these days. It does give me hope to look at them, though.

>>Take comfort, I suppose, in the fact that this game certainly isn't going to induce any of the players to go and beat on women any more than playing D&D induces people to beat on orcs - the situations are artificial because it's a game. And, by all means, continue to remind people that these situations, while cartoony, have very real and disturbing analogs and provide links to sites that showcase the aftermath. You might well wake some people up.<<

Oh, I know. But I think that, to some extent, it will desensitize people to the plight of prostitutes. It's funny, so why should there be a problem? After all, prostitutes are committing a crime and doing something that most people consider morally reprehensible. So big deal, right? That's the attitude I worry about perpetuating. I hope I'm wrong with it, but I don't think I am. Even if it's just doing that a little tiny big, it's too much.

I fully intend to keep reminding people. I have a hard time shutting up sometimes. I do hope that I can wake some people up, that would be nice. Doing so with even one person would make me happy. Hell, I've brought people around to my way of thinking on racist jokes, maybe my powers of persuasion are good enough for this. I even know someone I can start on. Next Saturday. Hmm.

Thanks, Matt. I appreciate your input.``

[innocent-man.livejournal.com]

Not sure the smoking comparison is apt; cigarettes are (or were, for a long time) discreetly marketed to kids. Plus, they aren't a game that you can put down and never look back on, they're an addictive chemical that poisons you slowly. (I'm a big smoke nazi, sorry.) :)

But I've commented a couple of times on the irony of saying it's meant for "mature audiences," because what they really mean is "people either immature or thick-skinned enough to find this funny."

Being thin-skinned isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course. I find it easier to cope with the world with a thin layer of callus over my heart, because there's a lot of ugliness out there. (OTOH, being an atheist makes it easier because I don't have to reconcile the injustice of the world with a supposedly loving god, but that's another discussion.) In fact, though I shame to admit it to you, I'm sure I'll wind up playing Pimp at a con this year and enjoying it.

But see, my life experience is such that I can enjoy it. I'm white, middle class and have enjoyed comfort and privilege all my life. I've never dealt with life on the streets or sex for money (well, there was that one time, but that's a story for more vodka). Show me a game about something closer to home and it might make me uncomfortable.

Does this attitude point, do you think, to a greater problem - that of "it doesn't affect me directly, so I don't need to identify?" I'm not a discompassionate person, but I do tend to view tragedy on a global scale where it doesn't involve me personally. Is that because I'm callous or because I don't like feeling helpless?

Dunno. I guess the worst the game is really going to do is provide an escape for people who don't really need to escape anything. I think what White Wolf should do is give a percentage of the proceeds to a battered women's shelter or something, or include a little card with the game explaining how this shit really does happen and how one could help, were one so inclined, or put such a note on the website. Heck, maybe you could demo the game at a local store and make that explanation yourself. :)

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

I love you, JuJu!

I'm glad that you can see it from my perspective. I know that for some people it's hard, and I certainly don't hold that against them. It is easier, I think in this case, for a woman to understand or someone who's been in a bad situation similar to that portrayed. I don't expect everyone to jump on my high horse, but I do expect that I be allowed to voice an opinion on something about which I feel this strongly. My experience with these people gives me, I think, a clearer perspective than most people can have. There's certainly nothing wrong with that on either count.

>>Just as bad - perhaps worse - is the overwhelming sense that we can't even protest, can't express an opinion. Obviously it isn't possible that we are at least partially right - we're uptight, overly sensitive feminist whackos. And obviously if one woman has ever enjoyed that game, then it invalidates everyone else. Never mind all the filthy shit that happens to men involved in this "business", never mind all the men who are - as you mentioned - prostitutes themselves.<<

Yeah, I agree totally here. Just reading the forum, where people are jumped on and ridiculed for their "too high moral standards" I see this. People were yelled at for coming on to the forum to diss the game. I guess you're only supposed to have a good opinion to post there, hmm? It annoys me, it does.

>>*Everybody* thinks AIDS is horrible. Everyone thinks 9/11 is horrible. Making a joke about those serves only to get us off our damn high horses. But when society as a whole doesn't seem to care enough about a given malady, making jokes at its expense isn't quite so amusing...<<

Indeed. Too many people don't see the very real and sad plight of prostitution for what it is. It's kind of like how racist or sexist jokes are frowned upon in most cases while people who might frown upon those are perfectly okay with telling fat jokes. Society as a whole for some reason finds fat people funny, so the feelings of the people those jokes are aimed at are either not considered or dismissed. I hope that made sense. I haven't been to bed yet. I need to do that soon.

Thanks for understanding, JuJu. I fully expected people to jump up and express an opinion opposite to mine, so I was hoping that someone would back me up. You and Matt have done that, and I really appreciate it.

Wow. I think this is the most traffic I've had on my LJ for a long time. Now I know how to get people to comment.

[aarondb.livejournal.com]

"I think what White Wolf should do is give a percentage of the proceeds to a battered women's shelter or something, or include a little card with the game explaining how this shit really does happen and how one could help, were one so inclined, or put such a note on the website."

A good idea, and one I'd prefer to see. However, can you see Justin or Conrad keeping their heads in the storm of "hypocrisy!" that would be flung their way?

Everything I've wanted to say here, Matt, you've said better. If you do that in the next book we're on together, I won't be so polite about looking bad. I'll just kill you.

[innocent-man.livejournal.com]

Eh. At least they'd have a leg to stand on. There was a time when White Wolf was cool and revolutionary, now they're just cool.

The thing is, WW isn't making money off real pimps and whores. They're making money off cartoony knockoffs thereof, but no money filters back to the ghetto. The relationship is purely ideological, and people can argue ideology when their bellies are full (and I'm squarely in that camp myself, Gayle and Juju, lest you think I'm taking aim at you). By acknowledging the real-life plight of whores and pimps, by explaining that the game is just silly fun but shit does happen and, most importantly, by putting their money where their mouths are, White Wolf would have a nice force field against anyone speaking out against the game. In effect, they'd be saying, "We know this shit happens, and we know that we're making jokes. Outraged? Here's what you can do."

Using humor, in other words, to stimulate thought and action. Novel concept, no? That's what I'd do if I were in charge, but I live in Ohio.

[iceni.livejournal.com]

Wow, I've become so out of touch with WW.

Ravnos is dead??

;-)

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

::aughs::

He is! Catch up, girl!

::hugs::

I've missed you, you've been absent. Where's your note?

[iceni.livejournal.com]

...Of course I'm still playing Mage constantly, but I never bothered to check out the new stuff.

[iceni.livejournal.com]

(Waves dentist and wedding shop appointment cards)

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

Okay, you're excused. ::grins::

I've got a campaign started...

[noizangel.livejournal.com]

Please check out:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/gamer_chicks/72457.html

http://www.noizangel.com/ptb/

Re: I've got a campaign started...

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

I will check those out, thanks for the heads up.

[triplee.livejournal.com]

I read this when you first posted it, but have held off commenting for a while, since my initial reactions showed up on bombyamom's journal anyway. That, and well, I wanted to think a bit more before simply reacting (well, more than I have already).

I'm actually of two minds on this whole thing. It hit pretty close to home for reasons I won't get into, and well, it is perpetuating a bad stereotype. But, well, as Aaron, Matt, Stew, etc. have pointed out, there's far worse stuff out there. This may be my usual moderate fence-sitting attitude, but well, it's a tough call. Is humor that points out a how stupid a stereotype is a good thing, as it debunks the stereotype? Or, does that humor only really work for those who already "get it", and perpetuates it for the rest of the world? I used to side with the former, but well, I tend toward the latter now. Still, it is hard to say.

I guess, well, it comes down to the fact that I really, honestly expect more out of White Wolf. I expect the South Park guys, eMpTyV, Maxim, etc. to pander to the lowest common denominator. I may or may not like it, but it's not like any of them have a track record of even bothering. White Wolf, short of a couple slip ups (Gypsies, certain regional books, etc.) has generally been really socially conscious, and well, been above the bar in terms of mature gaming. Some of the best writings I've ever seen about archetype vs. stereotype and why stereotypes of any sort are damning have come out of their ST guides. I really don't expect something this sophomoric to come out of there.

I'm going to voice my dissent in a constructive way, to be sure, and it would be nice to see some sort of educational disclaimer added on to the final sales. They've done it before with some potentially touchy topics, so I hope it happens again. If not, well, I'll be certain to school anyone I see with this monstrosity.

If anything, I realized that I should expend this energy to things that make a bigger difference.

On a side note, you may want to friend bombyamom, or at least keep looking over Mikel's shoulder. I've been meaning to point you two to each other for a while now, given that you have overlapping academic interests.

~EEE~

[innocent-man.livejournal.com]

Man, if you could see the art of game design from the other side...

Can't tell you how many times I've been reminded that if we titled all our books "Tits and Fire," they'd sell like crazy. One of the few negative comments I got in my performance reviews at White Wolf was that I needed to not be oversenstive to stuff like nudity in Dark Ages books.

Me, sensitive to nudity? I call upon someone who knows me well to laugh derisively at this point.

But the point here isn't that WW is an evil exploitave company, because they're not. They've giving people what people buy. It's actually a riskier venture to publish an RPG book without boobies than with (you'll note, BTW, that there's exactly one nipple in Dark Ages: Fae, and I think it's done very well).

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

>>I guess, well, it comes down to the fact that I really, honestly expect more out of White Wolf.<<

You know, I think that's my biggest problem with it. I do have a lot of respect for White Wolf and its products, and this just seems so far beneath them. I've come to expect other companies to throw out shit like this, but White Wolf I guess I've held to higher standards. That's what makes it all the more problematic for me. Tis a big dilemma. I guess we'll see where it goes. I doubt that it's going to be good for their image, which is sad.

>>On a side note, you may want to friend [info]bombyamom, or at least keep looking over Mikel's shoulder. I've been meaning to point you two to each other for a while now, given that you have overlapping academic interests.<<

You know, Mikel's said the same thing. I should pop over there and say hi. From what I've read of his LJ, I can see that he definitely is of the same mind as me about some important things. I must now bug him. I'm sure he'll love it!

Perspective of the author of Demon: the Fallen

[brettdanger.livejournal.com]

Someone on the forums linked to this, don't know if you've seen it.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/artbroken/431315.html?thread=1676499

Re: Perspective of the author of Demon: the Fallen

[aerdran.livejournal.com]

Wow. Thanks a bunch for the link. He said it very well, much better than I could have.

::hugs::